Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby Budman » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:02 am

Sick video. To be able to strike a ball solidy with that much movement going on with your body takes years of coordination development (or a lot of takes we didn't see..)

Anyway, I have to differ here a bit. Just because you demonstrate one CAN hit the ball with no weight on left foot does NOT mean this is what IS happening when one does have ability to use their left side (not zero ground contact of left foot).

I see here a huge exaggerated lateral move back and through. Much more than ever has happened in a world class swing. Happy Gilmore like. But lateral motion adds very little clubhead speed, yet does add a much more degree of difficulty in properly timing a strike. It is why the advocates of "modern" swing theories are trying to delete that unnessassary move. If it does very little, why have it and have to coordinate one more thing? While starting and staying left as in S&T may be an extreme over-correction, surely staying more centered would be ideal.

I have watched a ton of swing videos, past and present, as I am sure we all have. Planting the left heel down first to start down move (or very close to it) is, in my opinion, a hallmark of the greats. I am surprised to see you say otherwise because it is obvious as day. This motion of planting IS a weight transfer. It starts with the planting and by impact the right foot is the one almost with no weight. The tippy toe look of right foot at impact means there is little weight on it. In your demonstration your are on a flat right foot at impact.

Is the greatest ever not planting left very soon after reaching top of backswing and what little weight is on the right foot at impact not just on his toes?




Todays pro's are evolving to still load right side it appears but removing lateral motion by pivoting more stationary.

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Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby bspeck » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:04 am

Budman,

If u watch closely...hogan is trying to keep his right foot down. His right foot is grinding up turf, which eventually comes up to a tip toe finish due to his body rotation. The left foot provides balance and stability. Even though it may look like hes shifting all his weight when he plants the left foot down, majority of his weight is still on the right foot pressuring down, grinding up turf. He did not passively let the right foot slide over, he was trying to resist it.

Its very confusing topic for sure, because what see is not always what we think it should feel like. Many times, its the opposite. Only way to truly understand is to experience what they did thru proper downward pressures and opposing forces. These proper feelings is what paints the picture perfect swings we see.
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Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby LipOut » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:12 am

bspeck wrote:If u watch closely...hogan is trying to keep his right foot down. His right foot is grinding up turf, which eventually comes up to a tip toe finish due to his body rotation. The left foot provides balance and stability. Even though it may look like hes shifting all his weight when he plants the left foot down, majority of his weight is still on the right foot pressuring down, grinding up turf. He did not passively let the right foot slide over, he was trying to resist it.


I think there are shades of grey here. As with all observational learning - it's difficult to tell what's truly going on. If you see the right toe in the turf late and sliding - there may be some weight there but there certainly doesn't have to be. In any sport where you transfer weight, you have options for what you do with the foot where the weight started. If you think about a pitcher pushing off the rubber - once he plants and throws he could choose to drag that toe down the mound or he could choose to let it come up in the air as most do. If the analogy is too obtuse, take a look at Jerry Barber. He never moved his weight right but still gets his right foot folding down and could drag it if he wanted.



I'm not saying this is the right way to do it - I'm just saying that I think you have options and you can pivot only on the right, only on the left, or like most people - around the right then around the left with the weight and center of mass both moving from right to left. There are one legged people who play good golf, I've seen it.

I think the toe drag / turf tear is more related to cohesive tension in the body where the player is contracting all muscles, especially core muscles. The tensing down through the legs will cause the foot to drag REGARDLESS of where the weight it.

Just my 5c.
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Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby nfbandon » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:50 pm

We have been debating this issue on my thread on SITD for days. I for one didn't fully believe John on this point before the demonstration and the explanation John presented. Then Bradley made a great post about guys that carry a big angle into delivery (and I do) need to transfer later to properly release that angle through the strike. I have had a range session or two where I worked on this, and I will tell you my divots are much better. Before I would have the ocassional steep divot, but not doing this. And it just makes so much sense to leverage the ground behind us when we are wielding a heavy object at speed. I find it much easier to rotate and feel like I can support the club much better.
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Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby lagpressure » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:30 pm

weight.jpg
weight.jpg (94.88 KiB) Viewed 5483 times


If you were to look only at the pic on the right.. with legs.. it would be easy to come to an absolute conclusion that weight is much more on the left foot than the right. Most would believe that to get the legs to look like this... one would need to transfer weight left as quickly as possible.

However.. if we define weight as force or pressure measured at the ground.. then the picture on the left shows that no weight has been moved to the left foot yet.

But mass can move laterally without pressuring down into the left foot. It would be very difficult to move mass laterally without any opposing pressure or force being applied. This is best done with the right leg. The right leg is in a very good position to push mass left.

All great golf swings that I have seen increase right knee flex at transition. This loading into the right leg increases the range of motion of the knee to push against the mass of the body toward the target. There is nothing wrong with some mass going into the left foot in a normal golf swing.. but if the right knee starts to straighten from the prior flexed position.. it is going to try to push the mass up but because of our weight and lean angle of our rear leg... it moves mass more laterally.... it doesn't move mass down into the left leg as much a people want to think.

But because mass is moving left.. our eyes want to believe that there is a big load into the left foot much earlier than is actually happening.

Another thing to look at or even try yourself.. is the difference between the right foot sliding passively across the surface of the ground or grinding down into it. The grind manifests more downward pressure being exerted into the ground than a foot that is just sliding weakly across the grass.
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Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby lagpressure » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:52 pm

Also,

If I flex the right knee down... I am allowing mass to lower or lowering my center of gravity. This will also put the left foot on the ground if it has lifted at all. I certainly don't feel like I am slamming my left foot into the ground.. although it might appear that way.

Why does mass have to move left, laterally.. or move at all? It doesn't for pitching or shorter shots. But longer irons and woods require much more resistance to the change in direction created by the CF of a longer club and possibly a quicker tempo. It should not be underestimated the affect of applying additional force into the golf ball. The forces of impact work to slow the clubhead, the shaft and the body. Mass moving left along with the rotation of the torso is a very powerful combination to inhibit any slowing down due to the impact collision.
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Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby crr » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:43 am

nfbandon wrote:We have been debating this issue on my thread on SITD for days. I for one didn't fully believe John on this point before the demonstration and the explanation John presented. Then Bradley made a great post about guys that carry a big angle into delivery (and I do) need to transfer later to properly release that angle through the strike. I have had a range session or two where I worked on this, and I will tell you my divots are much better. Before I would have the ocassional steep divot, but not doing this. And it just makes so much sense to leverage the ground behind us when we are wielding a heavy object at speed. I find it much easier to rotate and feel like I can support the club much better.


Ca you link to Bradley's comments? Sounds interesting...
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Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby nfbandon » Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:39 am

CRR here it is less the pics Brad posted:


A LOT of this discussion has to do with how one releases a golf club.

The person who can hold bigger angles down and into the impact area...will definitely be advised to feel more of a right foot pressuring and never getting too far left....as they hold wristcock longer and have more torso rotation to utilize and can have the ball in a much more forward position in the stance to get at WITH upper arm connection and can deliver ALL that with the motion working more from right to left and beyond

The person who can't hold bigger angles down and into impact....will definitely be advised to feel more weight left side, will have less torso rotation saved for entry and a farther back ball position...as the wristcock is not held as long and the cluhead gets released earlier and some disconnect of the upper arms occurs.

Mix the two up and you are screwed........

I myself never felt too left....I felt a distinct pressure in my right foot all the way until it got ripped away from the turf with post impact...My right foot had my full attention....my left foot was just there

Did I go left...SURE...Had to so I could balance myself...
.Did I try get/stay/go left ...NEVER

When I did receive instruction later on my coach wanted me to be feel more left/set the club earlier...all that jazz.......BUT....It felt crap and didn't work well and chopped any footwork out of my swing basically cutting my legs off and totally changed my release (as talked about above)





So...I think it very important to understand your release first before you get too worried about where you feel the weight...OR.....our understand where having your weight is going to effect your release....don't mix and match
If you can hold angles and keep torso tilt and rotation....you should be feeling weight pressuring down the right....
If you can't hold angles and get the torso square early you need to be feeling more weight left......
and both will affect where you should have your ball positioned and what the rear arm is going to do and how the left leg reacts into straightening or softer.

I don't believe John is wrong on this point and others aren't entirely wrong either....it just depends what you know and what you can do and what you can wrap your head around based on your capabilities. Based on my experiences and knowledge of mys swing and what happened to it I agree with John...but can see the other side also.

And here is the link:

http://www.secretinthedirt.com/index.ph ... start=1375

It is page 56 of the thread if that doesn't work.
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Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby nfbandon » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:05 am

Jason Dufner "weighs" in:

Jason Dufner Golf Digest.jpg
Jason Dufner Golf Digest.jpg (116.26 KiB) Viewed 5287 times
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Re: Right Leg Loading and Weight transfer

Postby Range Rat » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:28 am

Yeah, it's pretty crazy over there sometimes nfbandon, and I think maybe because there are many different styles being discussed and some don't see, or know, the major differences between them so they are talked about like they are the same. :shock:

Like Lag said, you can't know what you don't know, and can't do what you can't know....or at least at a minimum, sense.

I like Bradleys use of the term holding angles, yet some over there say "I'm always getting rid of angles" in some push slap attempt- which is fine by me if that is what floats one's boat. However, if one works hard to store angles why on earth would anyone want to give it up too soon.

I see it in other terms, but is the same general neighborhood as Two and Lag say, of hitting with a shorter radius and shorter club, since we harness CP along with cocked wrists. Any left too early and you can kiss that goodbye. Another way I sense it is...I am at address in dynamic balance even though I am sort of of statically there, I am anticipating what is to come in terms of dynamics. So there I stand in a dynamic balance with a club that is built totally out of balance statically by design.

That left quick move I believe is an attempt to get the club to 'feel' dynamically balanced where the clubhead mass feels equal on both sides of the shaft centerline axis.

So we have this....dynamic address balance, holding an unbalanced instrument ( opposed ) and the first sign of too much left to make the club 'feel' more balanced from its inbalanced state will at that precise moment cause a 'momentary and almost imperceptable' inversion to imbalance with the body to stabilize the opposing forces...like a ghost note in music.

Much better to keep the radius short ( bent arm ) and shorter club ( cocked wrist ) and the club in static imbalance all the way and go like hell, but have to drop down first to do that....and stay dynamically balanced throughtout transporting an unbalanced instrument and the noggin will figure out how to do that.

Kind of abstract for some perhaps, just how I sense it. :)
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