Mike Austin Swing

Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby Frozen Divots » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:44 am

Her release is fitting for this but her full action isn’t. She is palm down when her hand is behind her. Maybe that’s to hide the pitch from the batter (so they don’t see riseball action and know it’s coming).

Austin promotes spinning all the way, nothing held. The club will take longer to spin than a ball would, as well. If you delay the move in golf you would have little action on it.
Like throwing a football underhand. Try it and you’ll see you need a hip bump leading to zing it.

You need the tailbone to go to rear side of centerline, then lead side of centerline.
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Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby Range Rat » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:17 am

Ok, got it. That's where the maximum ulnar deviation comes in as you said on the other page- going with it all the way. Pretty sure Elkington gets into some of that too with the trail wrist, as does Norwood. Joe said it feels like the thumb is pushing the shaft over the index finger, I think he maybe said baseball too, but my memory is fuzzy. I'll check my rat files for assistance. :)
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Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby Range Rat » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:36 pm

In Norwood's book, and am not sure about your familiarity with his work, within the down move section, he first talks about baseball and says a baseball pitcher's arm is the best example of the elbow coming out first with the hand retained.

He later, probably more directly related to the current discussion, says The chuck from the elbow is an out and down move from the shoulder and arm. The right shoulder rocks, or tilts back, and a feeling of the thumb pushing the shaft over the index finger takes place as the elbow triggers the chucking action. The feeling of the shaft tipping over is a result of a previous action from the elbow and is not done voluntarily by using thumb to accomplish this feeling.


It sounds as if you are discussing ulnar deviation on the trail side operating sort of like a spinning disc attached to an unfolding arm- the spinning disc is perpendicular to the arm axis center line.

All I can find at the moment. :)
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Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby Frozen Divots » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:11 am

Norwood and Austin have hand actions that fit their pivots, which were opposites.

Norwood being cross lateral. Raise knees when walking and touch left elbow to right knee and then right elbow to left knee. That is cross lateral motion and a feel/intent in Norwood’s pivot.

Austin is the opposite.

The hands can have an intent but will respond to the pivot and club if allowed to.

In any sound swing the goal is L chasing T. This means in laymen terms to have the ‘small forces have uninterrupted momentum into the large force’
So a pivot has a natural hand action and the compound pivot has one. So does a cross lateral pivot.

You can look at things biomechanically and work from there but in the end we are dealing with force. And there are lots of illusions and misunderstandings with force. Something that looks a certain way and doesn’t seem correct just may be correct.
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Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby Range Rat » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:55 am

Good divots, Divots.

Pivots were different but maybe the trail arm action was more similar than not, as Norwood said to swing under the knees instead of around them and throwing a football underhand seems quite similar to me. Norwood was not about hand intents, his was all arm extensions out of the elbow from the top, mostly. He sealed the wrists at set up and they were frozen from that point basically.

The hands can have an intent but will respond to the pivot and club if allowed to.
In any sound swing the goal is L chasing T


Like this bunches. Norwood would probably agree, as he said: in a good swing the shaft does not move :shock: . It took me a long time to fully appreciate that, but the club gets trapped between flexion, extension, and tilt sequencing. It therefore has no where to go except respond to the pivot. It's a cool feel. So I think Norwood, using layman's terms, may have been onto L chasing T way back in the day which is awesome, and the shaft moving is an illusion that we are moving it.

I knew I had heard an association between Elkington and Austin before but was incorrect. Steve didn't underhand it like Mike did, but finally found where I made that association. Elkington is suggesting Austin under rolled it, which may speak to you saying that Austin thought a roll was on "off plane" move. That's about it for me on Austin, I'm going back to my own private Idaho for RnR. Here's the video link, about one minute in. Cheers
http://www.secretinthedirt.com/index.php/media-gallery/790-the-clubshaft-twirl-explained-episode-693
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Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby soon_tourpro » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:08 pm

Frozen Divots wrote:
I am not promoting Mike Austins swing. I am clarifying it. I see too many posts that define it incorrectly.

Now, why does no one on tour do this? I would say because it is to difficult to time. It's all or absolutely nothing (which is why I think Mike did NOT compound pivot on short irons, margin of error too small. The mistake with a wedge is a disaster).
It's a tough motion. Just like the riseball is a tough pitch to throw. It took me a few years to get a good riseball down.

But, if you can do it, you will be longer.

.


Its simple.
Mike just didnt know how easy it was. ;)

Guy I coach hits it here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJy4Ouig1ms
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Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby eagle » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:41 am

This discussion is intriguing, but tough for me to understand....having trouble with the :
1 pivot
2 release
If someone can explain, or demonstrate on even more elementary terms it would be greatly appreciated. A few years ago after watching some Mike Austin and Dunaway videos I hit some of my longest drives ever....but had no clue why. That has evaporated now, and while distance isn't a main priority, it is a curiosity.....and can be helpful and fun.

Also, below is a link to a Count Yogi video/interview, showing his swing in slow motion at about 2:30. He is reported to have been a very long hitter, and low scorer. Any analysis of his swing would be appreciated. Does he utilize The Mike Austin pivot and release, (or did Mike Austin use Count Yogi's)?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXH2JGABEqE[/youtube]

Thanks
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Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby Range Rat » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:21 am



Good one Eagle, yes the Count did swing up from the top. This type discussion happens frequently over in the WRX brainwash compound where the homespun prevailing opinion states swinging up from the top is nonsense since, after all, the club has to return downward to the ball. Little do they appreciate that circles really have no direction, they're just circles- at any point on a circle is down going up, or is up going down. There is a down however, that part is accurate, but the down of only the club is sandwiched between 2 ups- one up from the top of the swing to strike and one up from the strike to the finish. How's that for circularity hilarity. :lol:


Edit: cleaned up the link for you so it would post. Removed the "s" from http:
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Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby Range Rat » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:26 am

Hey Frozen Tundra, on Austin's perfect circle are there any what is known as "flat spots" near the ball?
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Re: Mike Austin Swing

Postby Frozen Divots » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:05 am

A pivot is defined by tailbone action, primarily. Watch how a crane rotates. The top goes one way and the bottom (tailbone) goes the other in rotation relative to its centerline, like a counterbalance. This doesn't happen in an Austin pivot. The top pf the crane stays put. The bottom of the crane bumps across your centerline (line drawn down middle of the body to the ground). It is no longer is a crane. This is a good thing with his hand action. In other words, for a righty it's 'hip bump right, hip bump left' Hips always leading with trail leg giving in backwards to get the hip tilt required. So the spine is like a pendulum. That's his goal. The spine is the pendulum.

The trail hand action is a riseball. Like working a door knob. It's not a shove, its a doorknob turn. The trick is to keep turning the knob thru impact. This mimics the pivot and chases it in force. People bail on the motion and slap, scoop, etc at the wrong time. The flat spot is minimal, which is why I mention the timing. However the whole action is easier and 'natural'. I think the swing is easy when you understand the intentions.

People also drop the lead arm down. Death because now the whole system is off and the circle is changed. The head doesn't move, you have a ' lead side measurement'. Drop the lead arm off of the chest and now you have to re-measure on the fly. Good luck. This another error most everyone does when trying this swing. Now the doorknob release cannot happen. The wrists must change their conditions and the whole thing was a wasted effort. This is why people quit the swing, they aren't really ever doing it to begin with.
The lead wrist reaction is the backhand action that you can do on lead arm only swings. Lots of power there now.

Yogi backshifts. Different pivot. His hand action UP isn't the same as Austins, its his trail forearm working higher and over his lead forearm, not a conventional roll. Its really obvious in his chipping. Like the forearms are trying to be stacked, different alignment intentions. Easy trail hand free hinge slap action and because of the forearm actions, it's not a flip. If you want a true trail hand slap, this is the action. The problem with this is you need a massive turn and you better be flexible for the power he had.
Austin range of motion is the spine/pendulum action. Yogi range of motion is the upper body turn.
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