Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby golfingplease » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:15 pm

Some hogan. First couple seconds I feel really shows how hard he's driving the club through the shot with his pivot. Second group of seconds shows the awesome release.

http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=lI_C36rl05I
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Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby My3Sons » Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:36 pm

That's a great tool! It really gave me a sense of his rhythm and tempo by using the slider bars to loop a single swing. Thanks for sharing.

M3S
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Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby k2baloo » Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:08 pm

Agreed, very nice video.
Thanks for the post
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Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby NRG » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:19 am

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Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby lagpressure » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:08 am

I was playing on the Canadian Tour when word came out that George was terminally ill with cancer. It was a really sad day for everyone, and I remember what an
impact it had on the spirit of the tour. The older pros that knew him personally and had played against him were just torn up. A nice little video here released by
the Canadian Tour recently.

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Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby Wknhacker » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:08 am

Thanks for that video Lag.

George's amazing ball striking is still talked about at local driving ranges and golf courses here in Canada. I still recall one old driving range pro who said George's iron shots made a certain sound hadn't heard until he saw a certain Tiger Woods at Glen Abbey.

George's old home course, Oakdale Country Club, here in Toronto has named their opening 9 holes the "Knudson" on their score card. Nice touch.
"I have a tip that can take five strokes off anyone's golf game: it's called an eraser." - Arnold Palmer
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Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby Frozen Divots » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:22 pm

I could watch Knudson hit a ball all day long. Similar to Hogan in that he tried to cut himself in half with the shaft, what all of the greats did if they had that back swing.

3 ways to pressure shaft. 1st is send CH into angular momentum immediately (worst way), 2nd is to chase the wild goose with holding angles (ok way and wild goose is the misunderstanding of coam) and 3rd way is to transfer torque/flip the poles.
Hackers are usually #1 or a mix of 1 and 2. Good ballstrikers are #2 or a mix of 2 and 3 (most tour players are a mix of 2 and 3). The greats are #3 all the way. Looks different based on back swing and where your body is. But the greats all did it and I can watch it all day long.
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Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby nfbandon » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:18 am

FD I like that intention. In ABS terminology you might see a shaft 4:30 line, but a 7:30 line intention in the path. This goes back to the hand path on the ds ouside the bs. It is very obvious with Knudson, but Hogan also. This is my favorite Hogan video. I think it was 47 or 48. If you can't see his path intention with that tiny flattening of the shaft at the top you need reading glasses. You can see the convex arm path of his arm path...out and then in...no fighting to bend it back...just free...arms and rotation one connected machine. Like Eagle's racer coming out of the turn.



Now I do have a question. It is clear to me that Knudson has a crane pivot. Most would say the same of Hogan. However, you could make the argument he is pivoting off a single point if you ignore the movement of this hips targetward in the backswing. That shift happens in the last part of the backswing and it happens in the right hip.
Will you elaborate?
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Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby lagpressure » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:25 am

Just a couple of points Grady,

First, Hogan's left arm NEVER gets above his shoulder line.
Second, because of that his clubshaft NEVER gets above his right shoulder.

This is an absolute lock down fail safe insurance policy against OTT.
Throw in flatter lie angles and that golf ball is NEVER going to start left of his intended flight line.

There is nothing wrong with an inside takeaway as long as you adhere to the above fundamental principles.
You can take it way inside as long as the outside hand path stays under the right shoulder.

Then finally, the slot move WHICH IS an actual flattening of the clubshaft that PRESSURES it UNDER PLANE.
It is NOT just a shallowing of the shaft from some super upright disposition, UNLESS that shaft is able to work all the way back down to
under plane.

It must also be noted that the under plane is best to be pressured into the slot, not just manipulated there.
There is only one way to do this, and it is through active clockwise forearm rotation through the transition process.

What this does is increase the range of motion of the forearm rotation and if properly pinned into place the LOWER BODY
can then deliver it down to P3 keeping pressure on the shaft with no manipulation of the hands or arms.

When this is done correctly, it is what you are seeing, that vapor trail of the hands having a look of traveling more out, but not because
the arms are pushing out from the shoulder sockets.

Now the path to mastering this is not an easy road traveled. Just getting it into that position is not going to guarantee success. A player
is going to have to learn to actually hit from that full range of motion and pull the sword from the stone with both counter clockwise
forearm rotation assisted by a level shoulder rotation through the strike and beyond.. all working in unison. In the learning process you first
have to get the shaft there one way or another, even if you do manipulate it with the hands or impose a gravity drop to get the clubshaft working
down and behind you. Once you learn that strange sensation of working the shaft from under plane back to on plane through the strike, that will
really make it a lot easier once you get the slotting move down. This is why I teach the swing backwards for the most part.

Learn to catch before you get into a throwing match.
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Re: Great Ball Strikers of all time - links to footage and pics

Postby Frozen Divots » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:23 am

Upright plane with correct pressuring of shaft, like Nicklaus, etc, is easier and usually faster. But, you have less overall control and inconsistent contact throughout the bag. This is why those players were better drivers and long iron players. They could have adjusted on short clubs but didn't. This is how I know they really didn't know what they were doing. If Nicklaus, for example did, his wedge game would have been as good as his long iron game. He didn't really know what he was doing and didn't reverse things on wedge shots (because of there the CH/Grip was on that swing). On a pitch shot, to get the pressure of #3 is the OPPOSITE of full swing, especially on long clubs. Different orientation in space, so you have to pressure differently. it is NOT the same swing throughout the bag. Same effect, different pressures needed to get those...

Hogan, like Lag said, never gets over his right shoulder. There is a dilemma now...to pressure the shaft (using pivot, arms, etc) the way most efficient, he has his body in the way 100%. Hogan KNEW pressure #3. He did what Maves said and de-planed to hold it off at first...but changed later on. He knew that was a modified swing pressure #2 and didn't like it. Hogan had a #2, then a modified #2, then later had a #3.
Nicklaus had an easier path for golf pressure #3, as I call it. Hogan chose the most difficult path...BUT it has the best payoff for a COMPLETE GOLF GAME. Set up a golf course the way they should be set up, Hogan wins 100 events.

He couldn't cut his body in half, but the wanted to (the dilemma). So did Knudson. Hogan chose the toughest path...Nicklaus the easiest, Knudson in between.

Nicklaus flying elbow was helpful for what he did, Hogan was the opposite.

So imagine being Ben Hogan on the range in the 1940's...struggling with this- How do I pressure this the way it's needed when I am in the way? If I give it away, clubhead flies like a hacker. If I hold, I lose it more than I want. So I will de-plane (like Maves said). That will work well enough for awhile...but It's not 100% correct...so what do I do? He figured it out.
Hogan's pivot move forward into rotation was his solution. In other words, the first half of his pivot, matches the first half of the correct pressure on swing #3. The second half of his pivot matches the second half of correct club pressure for swing #3. Really, swing #3 is TWO moves. Not ONE motion, technically. He split his pivot to match.

It took him years to figure this out. But he did. And he KNEW what he was doing, unlike most players. Therefore he OWNED IT. He chose a tough path, and a tougher solution, but it works. There is an easier one with that swing.

So Hogan's secret (yeah, I said that) was him figuring out pressure #3 with his 'swing', or chosen attack angle.
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