Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby grux » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:30 pm

I know Jack's statement about changing the ball will probably fall on deaf ears but maybe the USGA will listen.

Reports surfaced in recent months that Augusta National, in a perpetual effort to improve upon Bobby Jones’ dream, is considering annexing the abutting Augusta Country Club in order to lengthen the 510-yard par-five 13th hole. The 13th traditionally plays as one of the handful of easiest holes at ANGC and the Georgia course’s second-easiest par-five (behind the 15th hole).

A late February Golfweek report indicated the club is seeking to purchase the territory bordering the 12th and 13th holes (Augusta Country Club’s ninth hole) in order to move the 13th tee back approximately 15 yards.

The price of the job? A reported $27 million.

It’s against this backdrop that six-time Masters champion, Jack Nicklaus was asked his thoughts on adding yardage to No. 13.

Here’s what Nicklaus, who is on the record calling for a rolling-back of the golf ball, said.

Well, you’ve probably got three or four different ways to handle that situation. One would be very simply just make it a par 4. They could do that, which they are not going to do.

Number two is what they’re proposing to do, and of course that depends on whether Augusta Country Club will share their property with Augusta National or not. That’s another question. Depends on what the tariff is, not sure about that.

The third thing they could do, and they’ve got plenty of room to do it, is recreate the green back about 30 yards. They could do that very easily. Probably make the same hole.

Four, they could take and reroute the stream bed, push it out and put a few more trees in.

So they’ve got a lot of options of what they could do. I’m sure that from a traditionalist standpoint, the best way is probably to lengthen the hole, and then you don’t change anything else. They have done that once, bought some land from Augusta Country Club and did that.

I think with the length the guys hit today, it’s the only reason. I tell you, the simplest solution is change the frigging golf ball (laughter). The golf ball goes so far, Augusta National is about the only place, the only golf course in the world that financially can afford to make the changes that they have to make to keep up with the golf ball. I don’t think anybody else could ever do it.

It’s worth noting that, according to Chairman Billy Payne, the deal is far from done. When asked about the land deal Wednesday, Payne stated diplomatically:

“AS WE DO EVERY YEAR…WE ARE ALWAYS LOOKING AT OPTIONS FOR NUMEROUS OF OUR HOLES … AS A CONSEQUENCE, 13 IS ONE OF THOSE HOLES WE ARE STUDYING. WE HAVE MADE NO DECISION WHATSOEVER.”

Also interesting: Alex Myers of Golf Digest, writing about the reported deal in February, included some very cool graphics, like the one below, that detail the evolution of the 13th, which began as a 480-yard hole, and has been lengthened 25 yards since 2001.
grux
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:34 am

Re: Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby lagpressure » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:16 am

Baseball is a good model to follow. It's a traditional game that hasn't lost popularity by staying with wooden bats and a leather ball. No need to change the fences or the distance between the mound and the bases. It works, leave it alone.

Only the short sighted folk who govern golf could be so arrogant as to think all these radical changes will go without consequence.
User avatar
lagpressure
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8184
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby Stu Carlburger » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:53 am

True Lag -- except for those few years when MLB was, allegedly, juicing the ball and Sosa, McGuire and Bonds shattered the home run records. Well, maybe it was the players juicing too.

I couldn't help but think that Mr. Hogan was rolling over in his grave watching these elite players spray the ball all over and miss greens. I realize the conditions were tougher than usual, but I heard the commentators say DJ had missed 24 of 54 greens. That's the 8th ranked player in the world and he's at 44% GIR. Rory was all over the place with his driver, and Jordan crapped the bed off the tee and opened the door for a ton of guys chasing him.

I'm really starting to see what Lag talks about in the modern game!
Stu Carlburger
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby Range Rat » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:07 pm

What's the math on that, 1.8 million per yard, or $600,000 per added linear foot? Ridiculous!!!

Take the 27 million, lease a joint locally, shuck in some equipment, build your own 'Augusta' ball for play and give the 1st ball produced to me for the idea. :lol:
You're ahead of where you were, and behind where you're going.
User avatar
Range Rat
 
Posts: 2368
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:30 am

Re: Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby lagpressure » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:13 pm

Stu Carlburger wrote:True Lag -- except for those few years when MLB was, allegedly, juicing the ball and Sosa, McGuire and Bonds shattered the home run records. Well, maybe it was the players juicing too.

I couldn't help but think that Mr. Hogan was rolling over in his grave watching these elite players spray the ball all over and miss greens. I realize the conditions were tougher than usual, but I heard the commentators say DJ had missed 24 of 54 greens. That's the 8th ranked player in the world and he's at 44% GIR. Rory was all over the place with his driver, and Jordan crapped the bed off the tee and opened the door for a ton of guys chasing him.

I'm really starting to see what Lag talks about in the modern game!


One really needs a reference point, or something to compare against. I basically retired at the end of the persimmon era. So I compare what I see today to what I saw then. I can't "un know" what I know. Someone who took up golf in 2000 has been playing golf for 16 years. That is all they know. If you didn't grow up playing persimmon and balata, it's hard to get it. I know us ancient guys probably sound nostalgic.... or the music of my generation was better etc. However, I certainly know that the golf I am seeing today is not on the level of expertise that I saw in my era. It's not even close. This weeks Masters was really an embarrassment. It was just horrible. We are seeing more and more of this "anyone can win" The Masters. It happened again this week. The way the event is set up, the skill level required is much more shallow than it used to be. Someone is going to win, just like someone is going to win any given tour event. It's a great accomplishment to win on The PGA Tour. But The Masters, or the event formerly called The Masters was an event that really separated the players, the best players in a way no other event ever did or could. Those days are over. It's back to the Augusta National Invitational as far as I'm concerned. The Masters was an event that existed in the past. It's part of golf history, but these recent chapters are going into a different book.
User avatar
lagpressure
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8184
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby stevemcgee99 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:26 am

Range Rat wrote:Take the 27 million, lease a joint locally, shuck in some equipment, build your own 'Augusta' ball for play and give the 1st ball produced to me for the idea. :lol:


That's a great idea, actually. And I'm sure they could be sold for $5 each to the peons.
McGee
User avatar
stevemcgee99
 
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:27 am

Re: Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby eagle » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:33 am

First Augusta, and then, a chain reaction may occur...
US Open
British Open
Players Championship
PGA Championship
and individual courses may follow suit.

who knows?? "It could happen"
User avatar
eagle
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:34 am

Re: Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby lagpressure » Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:36 am

Augusta should have been the event that saved the game. When the USGA and R and A cowered, Augusta members could have held their ground. The members don't need the money and they have shown the capability to call their own shots in the past… for better or for worse. Limiting commercial time, restricted caddies etc…. closed membership and so on. I certainly don't agree with a lot of this stuff, but point being, they were the one event that could have take a hard line. I wish they had protected the game itself. I couldn't care less about Butler cabin or ceremonial tee offs. It would have been great for them to make sure that the holes are played as they were designed. The holes did play basically the same for 60 years. Why change it? It wasn't broken, nothing was wrong.
It was the one event that continually crowned the worlds best players, year after year, decade after decade with very few exceptions. Can't say that anymore.

However, at this point, I don't see Augusta doing anything. They have just joined the band wagon and it will take someone else or a new organization, or a future generation to see the absurdity of what has been going on. I do think it will happen, but I am disappointed it is taking so long.

Again I am impressed with baseball, and the new slide rule is to keep the players from turning it into a contact sport. Keep it in the good tradition and look out for the safety of the players. Golf could learn a lot from the integrity that baseball has shown.
User avatar
lagpressure
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8184
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:50 pm

Re: Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby Mashie72 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:01 am

lagpressure wrote:
Again I am impressed with baseball, and the new slide rule is to keep the players from turning it into a contact sport. Keep it in the good tradition and look out for the safety of the players. Golf could learn a lot from the integrity that baseball has shown.


For ABS'ers under the age of 55. This is what the old slide rule looked like.
Attachments
Slide Rule 2.jpg
Slide Rule 2.jpg (129.52 KiB) Viewed 3644 times
"The secret is on the deck"
User avatar
Mashie72
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:42 am

Re: Jack Nicklaus: Change the ball not #13 at Augusta

Postby norcalvol » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:31 pm

With regard to the specifics of the baseball analogy...

The rule is not to keep the players from turning it into a contact sport... but it instead is to change it from the contact sport which it has been for a very long time into less of a contact sport.
Home plate and second base are very hazardous locations from the point of view of contact... baseball over time has become less physical at those locations --- old timers believe that the game has been getting 'soft'. And, pitchers protecting the plate has mostly evaporated... Exhibit A is Bob Gibson vs today's game.

So, the slide rule at home plate was changed a year ago (catchers prohibited from blocking the plate like they did for a century) and now at second base (runner can't stray too far from the bag when sliding into the base to prevent runners using their body as a weapon away from the bag) a similar rule change.

I was a second baseman in my years of organized baseball... with some very painful memories.

The game is evolving to prevent injuries as much as possible, and that can be viewed as a positive thing... but like I said, many old-timers think these changes are a detriment to the game. Different views of the game people love, and their views stem from how they perceive the modern game - it's better, or it's worse. For me, it's just different. But baseball old vs today is far less different than a similar comparison for golf. I like that aspect.
Accelerate forever!
User avatar
norcalvol
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:01 pm
Location: Bay Area, California

Next

Return to Public Forum- Concepts in Advanced Ball Striking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron