A Lesson with George Gankas

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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby LesMurray » Tue May 24, 2016 10:24 am

Can you take your argument with John to a different thread, please? This thread is not intended to attack the merits of ABS. It is to critique and contrast the swing George Gankas is teaching with what we learn here at ABS.
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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby norcalvol » Tue May 24, 2016 10:44 am

Let's be clear...

Kirkschwart has a gap in his posts... between December 2012 to May 2016.
After a 3 1/2 year absence, he returns only just after his teacher, Alec Katzman, was outed on this thread as being the person behind internet names such as Judge Smails, and previous to that Bodega Bomber, and previous to that Lecoeurdevie. That is the same Alec Katzman who used a different name on SITD for a while and exhibited what a vile human he really is... his treatment of Brad Hughes on that site was beyond deplorable... rather inhumane frankly.

So, Mr. Kirkschwart, your intentions and motivations are crystal clear.
Accelerate forever!
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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby kirkschwart » Tue May 24, 2016 11:21 am

This really isn't about Alec but I've got a good feeling that he actually enjoys the fact that you guys hate him lol. I've played with him and he's very good, great trajectory control, excellent around the greens and a deadly putter. Last I heard he was right down in Monterey, I'd love to see who'd win a match between Alec and John. I won't hold my breath though lolx2.
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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby HelterSkelter » Tue May 24, 2016 11:34 am

It is Alec, probably borrowed his logon. Don't you recognise the same link he's posted previously.
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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby kirkschwart » Tue May 24, 2016 1:47 pm

Paranoid much?
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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby Steve P » Tue May 24, 2016 4:31 pm

I could definitely see difficulty in applying GG's release if one is conditioned to forearm rotation. It would cause issues. 2 years is a long time to be doing one thing and you can't just turn off a habit.
I GET that the idea is to pin everything via a late torso rotation in ABS. Of course the pivot is far stronger than the hands. In transition the face is opened club slotted then lag is held and you fire the forearms and pivot at the bottom. So the idea is that while you are trying to go ccw with the forearms at the bottom the pivot prevents a flip roll. It seems to me if you imagine ABS just in terms of forearm hand action without pivot effect the action is a flip.
GG with no pivot would be just quiet hands with square clubface.
I view GG's idea as much simpler. Slot club begin pivoting whilst maintaining connection and pivot hard through impact and let go or throw just post impact. GG's students all have nice connection. I don't see them holding lag I see them with nice angles but he's never mentioned holding lag that I have seen. The biggest connection I see between ABS and GG is the right leg pressure starting down. It's the opposite of what Hogan said in Five Lessons about shifting weight left. GG specifically tries to remove excess lateral motion in the hips too.
Both ABS and GG in IMO are methods that require total commitment and a lot of practice.
GG is a strong simple communicator. He has to be simple and straightforward to have so many great juniors just smashing it. His IG stuff conveys important info very simply. But, don't let that make you think that the execution of what he shows is simple because it's not.
One sticking point to me on the swing is saying that if you use forearm rotation in transition that you don't need it to square up. Maybe you could say you wind it up and it springs back by itself but either way if you open the face at any point you need to square it later and the pivot is not enough. Ben Hogan wrote of the importance of supination and he definitely needed and used it with his weak grip and deep slot. Without the weak grip and deep slot things are much simpler.
The pivot to me dynamically is a stabilizing force for the clubface. It just needs to keep going it doesn't need much more. If it stops you have trouble. You don't need to accelerate it at impact. I don't think I would say that the pivot in a dynamic sense squares up the clubface. Maybe if you are 45 degrees open at impact it does some of the squaring but even for someone like me who feels no real active supination I think it's there just subconscious.
I think GG relies on strong pivot work to keep that face from shutting down not to close it so maybe that's a difference between ABS and GG as well.
For my money Hogans book is best for the simplest way. He said to keep conscious hand action OUT of the swing and I think more people should pay attention to that.
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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby 1teebox » Tue May 24, 2016 6:04 pm

Respect and thanks to LesMurray and the people trying to get the original topic up front again.
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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby LesMurray » Tue May 24, 2016 7:17 pm

Steve P brings up some good points. There are advantages to learning the release we use at ABS but I'm not sure I can express those advantages succinctly.

I know that by using torso rotation and forearm rotation through the ball we feel significant pressures and feels in the hands that we use to hit to distance and maneuver the ball. I think that with GG, his ball has less spin and a lower tragectory to better optimize the launch angle for the modern ball. The ABS release may not be the best release for the modern ball, but it does keep alive the skills used during the balata era to control and maneuver the old ball. My opinion and not necessarily the truth. I won't say I'm a Ludite (look it up) but I do find it appealing to use the old skills and the old clubs.
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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby lagpressure » Tue May 24, 2016 9:12 pm

kirkschwart wrote:This really isn't about Alec but I've got a good feeling that he actually enjoys the fact that you guys hate him lol. I've played with him and he's very good, great trajectory control, excellent around the greens and a deadly putter. Last I heard he was right down in Monterey, I'd love to see who'd win a match between Alec and John. I won't hold my breath though lolx2.


Alec has never won a golf tournament. He's disrespectful to others and continues to troll many golf internet sites for some strange reason.
He's been a decent player in the past, and I do think he has a fair understanding of the game and equipment. He could be an asset to the game
but chooses not to.

As far as kirkschwart, he never completed Module 5 on the ABS program. Having not worked through the transition modules, it's hard to expect much if
that is the area that needs improvement (such as being steep on the downswing) The purpose of Mod 5 is to develop first rate hand attitudes that set up a proper transitioning of the club. Without it, it doesn't happen. This would be similar to not reading the final four chapters of a college textbook then complaining about a poor score on the final exam. This is NOT piece meal instruction. Most know this before signing up for ABS>

I don't believe the golf swing is a simple action with easily attainable results. It takes time, hard work and patience to master. If the golf swing is easy, everyone would be striking it great.

Make no mistake, ABS is an ADVANCED approach to hitting a golf ball. It is based upon the actions of the games best ball strikers who have embraced a hitter's protocol.

As a player proceeds through the course, they learn the intentions of the great strikers and do the best they can to move their action in that direction.
The later Modules show the student how to harness variations in ball placement, lowpoint and specific techniques for drawing and fading the ball..... which enable them to play golf by feel, instinct and not mechanics.
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Re: A Lesson with George Gankas

Postby Steve P » Wed May 25, 2016 6:35 pm

Alec helped me a lot with my game. He helped to simplify everything for me. I employ his principles every time I tee it up along with Hogans 5l principles. He came to play with me in person even though the weather was terrible. I always know if I want to work on things what principles to work on. I am not a serious player. I was very serious about learning to strike a ball correctly though. The game was frustrating to me before I had help. Now I don't think about much really or practice much. I have proved to myself I know how to hit a ball. To me it's about simplicity.
Whether you go GG or ABS you will have a certain amount of complication involved in particular in transition through to impact.
ABS deals in terms of modules so it's a straight method teaching. Every player gets the same modules. GG I think has very strong preferences and while he may not say it he's a method teacher too. Similar (excellent) swing shapes from all his younger players.
I think GGs method as Les said is well suited to the modern game big power and all that. He has some real bombers in his stable. Abs looks to me like a low ball hitting method. I could be wrong on that.
With GG it's clear he wants a lot of commitment from his players to practice a lot and obviously ABS is all about practice.
By my estimation both methods lack simplicity and ease of execution. IMO you want to build a swing that is automatic for one shot and that shot is a straight shot that has a fade bias. What you do is eliminate left. If you can do that in the simplest easiest way to execute you can play decent without a ton of work. I agree with Hogan that everyone has plenty enough ability to break 80 on a relatively consistent basis. As Hogan said the biggest trouble for most is simply not knowing what they should be doing. Also he said once you start doing things right you find its much easier than trying the wrong way.
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