Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby LesMurray » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:52 pm

HB51 wrote:Question...not sure if right thread...

I have a chance to pick up a set of Hogan Apex very cheap. I can only see a limited pictures but they look like 1999 model in great shape. Unfortunately they have an Apex "1" flex which I believe is "senior".

If I get these I would reshaft with Apex 4 or 5. Does anyone know if the heads would be any different, mainly in headweight compared to a set that would have had a stiffer shaft. I thought at one time club makers would "sort the heads" by gram weight and use the lighter heads in women's and senior flexes.

Thanks in advance....


I don't have the answer to your question about the heads. My question is why you would bother. There are so many other fine sets of Hogans out there that you could have for cheaper than getting those '99s then reshafting. I've had a few sets reshafted and it ran me about $200 or so for the new shafts and the labor for Mike Rees. I went through that trouble for my reshafts because they were classics - '58 Hogan Precisions and '69 Wilson Staff "Buttonbacks".

I do have a set of '90 Hogan Apex BH Grind irons 2-E plus Wilson Staff JPII SW that I'm not using. The Hogan's have Apex 4 shafts and the grips are in decent shape. I had them bent 2* flat from standard. Make me an offer via PM and we can probably make a deal.
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Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby nfbandon » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:08 pm

I may have a set of Apexs with 5s. They haven't been bent, and as I recall had a bit of offset. I only hit them once. Hit them way too high for my liking. I may have given them away already, but will check if you are interested.
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Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby HB51 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:33 am

Les and Grady....thanks for responding.

I actually went to look at the set last night. The guy selling it new nothing about clubs as he had a couple old sets that were his parents. The Apex appeared to be the 1973 model, but they had Womens shafts....very short. The set also included 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, woods putter, bag. I had driven over an hour and when he saw the look on my face when I was unsure if they would be different heads, he said take all of it for $20. I figured if I couldn't use the heads this would be a great set for my son...he's 9.

Anyway, I would definitely be interested in the sets you guys are offering, particularly the Apex with the "5" shaft. That's what I was planning on putting in the set I picked up.

Grady, can you PM me about the set.
Thanks,
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Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby LesMurray » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:18 am

'73 Apex is a good design, classic "blade on blade".

I haven't had good luck finding Apex 5 shafts on the 'Bay. I'd like to put a set of those or a set of TT Rockets in my Precisions.
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Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby HB51 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:30 pm

Les...your right. But did you see that set of Apex 5 shaft pulls on eBay that expired yesterday? They were $30 for a set of 8. I should have bid on them but I had not yet gotten the 73's so I did not want to commit. I tend to think there must have been something wrong with them to be only 30. It looks like there were 2 bids at the last minute....maybe an ABS'er lurking til the last second. :shock:
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Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby eth14dev » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:39 pm

Hey HB51,

Glad you scored some clubs that at the very least your son can work with. I have to agree with Les the 73 Apex irons are great. Am using a set of 73's as I am rebuilding my swing these past few years. As for the weight of the club heads, sorry that I can't offer much in the way of the headweights themselves unmodified (no lead tape), but perhaps some of my experiences (albiet not as extensive as many here at abs) through this journey of vintage clubs may be of interest for your search, so just my subjective opinion here.

One thing I have realized is how important in terms of feel the weight of the clubs in the hand is (which I am sure is obvious to everyone), but the choice of shaft will greatly influence this. For example, hypothetically if lighter heads on average were used for softer flex clubs (lets say within a few grams in comparison to stiffer shafted clubs) but all else being equal, lets say 2-5 grams of difference then, the weight of the shaft in relation to the head will give a greater difference in feel. So if you are going from a Apex "1" shaft to an Apex "5" shaft in the same 73 Apex's or vice versa going from 73 Apex's with factory installed "5" down to "1" shafts, if there is any difference, it would be very, very tiny in terms of perceptible feel as in comparison to reshafting with say S400's. Though the stiffness is theoretically less than an Apex "5" shaft, the Apex shafts were designed to be lightweight, so naturally even a lighter head will feel heavier if the shaft is light statically at address between these two shafts. Another thing to consider too is how the club feels dynamically. For example, going from an Apex "5" to X100 the weight might feel similar statically since the DG X100 is just a tipped S100. Yet, in the dynamics of the swing the Apex "5" might feel a little heavier in the head, but with more whippiness in the club as compared to the x100 which may feel more lighter and rigid in the hand when in motion due to the different flex points and step patterns and different wall depth variations between the shafts which affects the bending profile we put on the shafts as we swing. Although I do want to say this is all about "feel", so again just my own opinions. I don't claim this as an objective perspective but one of subjective based on a few objective parameters of weight and flex set by the equipment itself.

If you want to be super precise, perhaps picking up 3-4 sets of apex 73 or whatever your desired head design is with different flexes, weighing the heads and then hand picking your optimum weight progression might be worth it, if it is financially within your budget while you work on obtaining those apex "5" shafts.

But then again, if it is just something you were wondering, but not a top priority concern, then I don't think there should be an issue reshafting any head with any shaft. Finding the combo that best fits you I think is most important since golf is a lot about feel after all. Personally, I don't think there is such a thing as being too finiky with one's personal game set(s).
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Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby eth14dev » Fri Oct 27, 2017 3:19 pm

Hi nfbandon,

Nope not trolling
My next crazy plan is to try using a split grip like holding a samurai sword with a 48" 9iron while playing in a thunderstorm. :lol:

But in all seriousness, I like to explore all possibilities. I have dabbled between average weights and the modern ultra light weight cavity back, cast heads with senior flex graphite shafts with massive amounts of offset, up until about 2.5 years ago. Until now never considered going over what most even on ABS would consider "normal" heavy. The idea stems from personal instinctive feel, experience with equipment in other sports and a curiosity to research until I find my optimum set as I strive to perfect my swing. Since I have tried one side of the extreme spectrum, just wanted to try the other possible absolute extreme to see what that is like. I realize there are practical limits as to what the equipment can handle, but won't know the max out point until trying within safe limits. Also, for reference, I personally like a relatively light swing weight (D2-D7), but a heavy mass weight when it comes to sports dealing with using sticks to hit small roundish objects. The exact opposite of my dad who likes clubs in the lighter spectrum of average deadweight, but a lot of feel in the head with swingweight.

The whole point of the thread originally was to ask about some of my wacky ideas to get feedback to be better informed as I experiment. Cause I have some insane ones, like something I want to try is what happens if we tip let's say an DG X300 then ram down the sawn off tip section down the shaft as far as it will go, add a very rigid steel insert weight in the tip and then after adding the butt extender, sheath the top of the shaft with butt trim from something like a Hogan Vector 4, with the larger butt diameter it might fit over the extender and x300 butt then add a butt plug and pin it through the butt plug to hold it together as extra security alongside the epoxy. XXX300??? ;)

Again I am not crazy (at least I hope I am not) just a lot of thoughts along the lines of: "what would happened if..."

(In all seriousness again,) Thanks for sharing your thoughts nfbandon
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Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby nfbandon » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:57 am

Eth,

When you get those 40oz clubs built I would really like to see some face on video hitting shots. I am curious to see what the shaft is doing. Fyi, I experimented putting sand all the way up the shaft in a 6 iron a few years ago. I could hit it okay, but it certainly wasn't an improvement.
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Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby eth14dev » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:20 am

Hi nfbandon,

Yes, of course will upload some vids. Although can't say how soon that will be. As mentioned this thread was more of getting thoughts on wacky ideas, so I see the 40+ oz clubs as something that at minimum is still at least a year out. I am at the moment trying to figure out how to deal with making a shaft that will be stiff enough and strong enough.

Which has to do with the idea of insert shaft stiffeners and how adding extensions might change stiffness profiles in certain points of the shaft. Like Les mentioned, need something that can handle it first before going to the extreme. Plus once the experiment pans out like you mentioned, might find staying in 14oz-18oz range was better after all. And in retrospect, realized I did not do a good job of making one thought very clear: I was thinking of trying weight ranges.

So I think of:
10-19oz as one range
20-29oz as another
30-39oz
40-49oz

So I want to experiement with different weight ranges and find my optimum set up.
At any rate, after having a good number of months to adapt to zero offset and at least a S-flex (been using an R-flex and a Senior Flex prior because I always thought I could not handle anything higher until now), came to the decision that I will start by just going to X-flex and start by first lead taping up the heads on my Apex 73's.

Will keep things updated on this thread as the adventure continues.
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Re: Equipment Modding Question for a Newbie

Postby nfbandon » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:47 pm

I was wondering how you would have that much head weight and find a shaft that could handle it. I know TT made an x500 at one time. I have a persimmon with one. I don't think it is much stiffer than an x100, but heavier. Of course, being heavier makes it play stiffer. You might start with looking for a set of those. You could then tip them and add extensions. Don't be afraid of stiff shafts. My experience is a good ABS swing will be able to play any stiff shaft.
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